The future of the drum-set...

[tgw_mobile]

Hi all,

The drum-set has come along way since the 'snow-shoe' trap-sets of the early 20th century. Steve Smiths DVD 'History of the US beat' gives us an insight into the development of both the instrument (technology) and its use in performance (technique and cultural shifts).

We now have extermely high quality and robust gear, stands, drums and thrones, we have increasingly powerful e-drums, and revolutions brought to us py pioneers like Williams, Gadd, Vinnie, Weckl and Donati, to name a few.

In the cultural arena we currently we have drumming as sport and devices that tell us how fast we are - a highly dubious aesthetic IMO, based on a myopic and misplaced understanding of the drums. Can anyone imagine a 19th century Brazilian Batacuda player being praised for the speed of his right hand? [img]wink.gif[/img]

We have nascent attempts at removing the drum-set from its traditional environment as an acccompanying instrument to the centre stage (Bozzio, Jimbo) alongside ever more complex Ostinato performance.

We have seen the decline of the studio age and the advent of Cubase, Reason and the Home Studio.

So where next? How will the internet further influence are craft? We have already seen how powerful a resource it is in this vary forum... self-editorialsed content often of greate insight than the drumming magazines.

Will there be a gradual consolidation / fusion of the linear styles? When will Weckl's Elektric band performances be taught as basic primers? don't laugh (as has happened with Jim Chapin's great 1947 publication - once deemed utterly impossible and beyond the ken of any drummer)

Will odd-times come back in?

Geddy Lee of Rush once said (of music and cultural cycles that the tide comes and goes but the sea remains the same.... plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose - for you Rush fans [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

Will open-handed playing become more common?

Will traditional grip (my preferred technique - Steve: Loved the video!) become more popular or less?

What about brushes?

Just a few questions to kick start a discussion...

Regards

Tim.

[mwm]

I've wondered about this kind of thing for some time.

What will drums look like 20 years from now? 50 years from now? Will we recognize it?

Sounds?

Drum sets, as we know them, are relatively new -- are we stuck in yesterday, or have we found the set?

[XNavyDrummer]

I remember looking at all this electronic drum stuff a few decades ago and thinking, so, this is the future of drumming, now looking at it 20 years latter that same electronic gear is obsolete, what's in it's place? Great sounding acoustic gear that looks a whole lot like the stuff that has been around for a very long time. Perhaps some stuff is timeless...

[Cameron_Mahoney]

The way I see it is, if drum makers were going to radically change anything, they would have the power to change it already. Have drums really changed that much in the past 50 years or so? Essentially, no. Look at "cutting-edge" products like the duallist pedal, which never really caught on. Sure, there will always be people with massive drum sets, but will the elements it is comprised of change that much? I guess it depends more on where popular music goes. As of now, we have everything we need to produce musically what is expected of us. We can replicate many styles of music with the same tool, the same drumset. Perhaps as music changes, the role of drums will change, and there will be demand for new products. But think, has there really been much development in the past 10 years, product wise? 20 years?

As for electronics, who can say? I don't think electronics would ever catch on as an exclusive way of playing the drums. It just doesn't seem especially popular now... what will make it more so in the future? More sounds and a more feel typical of a regular drum set? But why would something that tries to replicate the original replace it? I think it's more of a specialty tool situation, though I may get flamed.

Despite all of that, realize that in the scope of music, the drum set is a relatively new instrument, like the electric guitar. Now think of an instrument like the trumpet or the flute. Have they changed dramatically over time? We can still recognize primitive flutes as what they are.

I guess this brings up another point, as there are plenty of primitive drums and percussion instruments that are still used today. If we view the drum set as a combination percussion instrument, it is pretty logical. But that's a big "if", as it would discredit the drum set as an artistic andeavor in itself, less than a makeshift tool.

Meh, I'm mumbling and on pain meds. So shoot me... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Cameron_Mahoney]

After reading the topic post again, I found a few more things to say...

19th century percussionists being praised for their right-hand speed? Who's to say? Humans are a competitive and dominating people, so such a thing could have been. But I see your point as to who determined faster is better? I agree that it is unlikely, as speed, power, instant gratification, etc. are more a result of modern culture than anything reflected by what we know about the old.

I see the internet being impacting mostly as a learning tool, as has been shown in recent times. Being young enough to grow up in an age where information is so readily available is a blessing. Being able to access videos and excersises and articles at my home must be a miracle compared to past times. On a lesser note, perhaps the way music is being shared and spread through the internet will eventually lead to the demise of the music "industry" and there won't be a "business" of this art anymore, if you udnerstand me, although it is very far-fetched.

As for open handed playing and matched/traditional, one could say that eventually open handed playing and matched grip would be most common eventually, but look at us now. We look to the past. People start playing drums because they have some musical influence. They hear them or see them on television and want to replicate that to stimulate themselves. Since we live in such a media-savvy culture, people will always be able to access videos and sounds of drummers past, and want to be like them, as we have. An example that clears up what I'm saying would be how many people started playing drums because they saw ringo or buddy play. Or how many people play traditional because of Vince. Or how many cherry red yammi's were sold because of Weckl's 80's set... etc.

Brushed becoming more popular or obsolete? I think they will always be around, but will stay the same. They are a tool used to achieve a certain feeling and timbre, and will remain that way. I don't ever see them overtaking regular sticks, or becoming extinct. They're just another tool to be used for another job, like a hammer or screwdriver. I suppose maybe if jazz died, maybe they'd go away. Heh.

I don't know what I think about the chapin book analogy. The standards for drum set have gone up, but how far will it go? Certainly there are people like Virg and Lang and Minneman who push the limits technically, but they're not successful on that merit alone. They still bring in the bread by grooving and doing what's expected of a good drummer. So he can do a triple backflip while backsticking all the rudiments (with hybrids) underwater in under 40 seconds. Planet X, comercially, doesn't compare to something like Sting or Faith Hill, or something like that, and if someone pulled stuff like that out in a gig like that, they'd be toast. So, I guess what I'm saying is, although people like Vinnie and Weckl and Gadd and whoever who find unique and inventive ways of expressing themselves, it doesn't apply to the scope of music evolution, as it doesn't appeal to the masses and doesn't fly commercially. I may even go so far to say that very technical performance is stifling artistically, for the other members of a band, if it overpowers them. But there are groovers that do their job and what's expected of them by the rest of the band, the music community, and the listeners, and there always will be people like that. Though technically we have come a long way, the technical demand in ratio to the demands of musical styles has not grown evenly with the technical prowess of modern drummers. Music would need to change a whole lot to see Weckl's work become basic drumset primer. I guess when we see Moonbabies or The Green Mindbomb appealing to millions, and styles as technically demanding becoming the norm and very popular, we will see the standards required of us raised.

I hope some of this made at least a little sense, or some points.

[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 17, 2005 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Cameron Mahoney ]</font>

[matricks]

As my friend commented to me when he was looking at my Eliminators... 'they need better engineers". He is an engineering student and he pointed out a good point. Think of how smooth everything would be if drums made more revenue, the hardware, pedals, drums themself, would be so much better, more efficient... a better product because they would have more of a reason to push the market boundaries.

The problem is that the evolution of the drums is alot slower than it could be, well, because how much do you think engineers are employed at these places, and what fresh upstart is going to want to say, 'hey, i can't wait to work on developing a new and more efficient bass drum pedal for DW'? My guess is that they are drummers who happen to have degrees in that area anyway. Just a guess.

I think that, for one, the mechanistic realm of the drums will become more efficient. However, i see this as a slower evolution than it could be because: 1) The money isn't there (i.e. why go work at Yamaha drums when you could work for their more profitable divisions? Not to mention why, as a company, waste a great engineer on a bass drum pedal?). 2) Whether proposefully or just because there is no reason to provide a better product; planned obsolescence exists, and until that changes, an inferior product will remain. 3) No one complains about the feel of the top of the line pedals because they feel better than the older ones, meaning, there is not a higher plain to really compare to so therefore the status quo is the plateau until a new evolution slowly comes around; there is no catalyst for any real punctuated evolution.

I think i have thought about this too much [img]confused.gif[/img]

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 17, 2005 11:42 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>

[Groovemeister]

Things go in cycles and gimmicks come and go, but you just can't reinvent the wheel.

There has been "Radical Bridge Suspention", single lug drums, and all of it wiped out. Drums have to be round, so there's only so much you can do beyond that...

MP

[Pedro G]

Drums are a relative new instrument, but if we check the evolution of other instruments we can get a pattern, for example, the piano. It reached a technical climax more than a hundred years ago, so the new pianist had to look beyond technique to try to keep the evolution going, so they explored rhythm, harmony, independence, etc.
I think the real innovations on the drums won't come in the technical area, but in the mental area. Our body can't do things more faster, and I think we are close to his limits, but the brain has a lot to offer to drumming.

Just my 2 cents
[img]wink.gif[/img]

[five eight]

The trap set (a drummer and all his trappings) is only about a century old. I think "Baby" Dodds is the first cat who arranged it that way before the likes of Krupa, and later Buddy, solidified it in the public eye. But long before that drums were round and centuries ago drummers used to inspire warriors to see red by hammering some motivational pre-Bonzo strum-un-drang before the big ker-clash. They don't call them drums of war for nothing; it's common enough to be a metaphor nowadays.

Biblically speaking 'sales' is the oldest profession, but I'd bet by the time the first salesgirl ever hit the street there was some drummer behind her giving her a rhythm to which to shake her butt. And as sure as God made li'l green apples that butt was as round then as they are now; as was the drum.

I don't know what to say about the first caveman getting his pata fla flas on with a stick on a log. [img]eek.gif[/img]

[Suspiria]

From a financial standpoint, I am kind of happy that drums haven't evolved at such a rapid pace. Think of computers where you can basically buy a new one every other year, if you want to be up to date with the most recent innovations. Imagine the cash you would need to dish out in drumming...It's got its positive side too [img]biggrin.gif[/img]